JESSE FEWELL is the founder and principal coach at Fewell Innovation in Washington, D.C., USA. A writer and trainer in innovation and Agile methods, he founded the PMI Agile Community of Practice, cocreated the PMI ACP Agile certification, and wrote a MiniBük (an “ultra-short,” 3.5-by-5-inch printed book) called Can You Hear Me Now? … Working with Global, Distributed, Virtual Teams.
His tips for working remotely:
- Don’t expect to get things right on the first try. It’s a process of small experiments and iterations.
- Be deliberate about scheduling collaboration hours.
- Train everyone on how to use the tools.
- Get together face to face occasionally.
Podcast production by Podcast Monster
Graphic design by Alfred Boland
Lisette: Great, and we’re live. So welcome everybody to this remote interview. My name is Lisette, and I’m interviewing people and companies doing great things remotely. And I’m totally excited today. It’s a real treat. I have Jesse Fewell on the line, woohoo! Jesse, I have it you’re a writer. And we’re going to talk about that, very important. A coach, a trainer in innovation and Agile methods. And you founded the PMI Agile Community of Practice. And you co-created the PMI-ACP Agile Certification. And you’ve written a book, which is how you caught my attention. It’s called Can You Hear Me Now? A book on working with global, distributed, virtual teams. So super great to have you here.
Jesse: Likewise. I’m excited to talk to queen of superpowers.
Lisette: [Laughs] That was the right thing to say. So let’s start with the first question. I always ask this to everybody. What does your virtual office look like? What do you need to get your work done?
Jesse: Well, it’s been a journey. And this is something that I think anybody who is going to be trying to work from home or trying to connect with people in other offices, be prepared for a journey. You will not have it figured out in the first try. The first of my offices was actually up in the attic of my house. My family and I, we basically renovated the attic to be a loft. And it’s a gorgeous little space, tiny, cute, but cramped. And when you’re up in the attic and you’re six feet tall, eventually, you start bumping your head up against [the things – 01:44]. Not only that, but you get a little weary climbing up and down the fire brigade ladder up and down to get to your office. This is just not working for me.
So then I moved into my bedroom. What I did is I set aside a little corner. And I put a desk. And then, okay, you’re going to put a webcam in your bedroom. That sounds creepy. So what I did is I mounted the webcam on a piece of furniture pointing at the corner. So from your perspective, it would look pretty much basic. What I want to do is for those of you on video, I’m going to do a quick, little screen share. The idea was that I wanted to have a space that was mine. So I created a mini office. So create the appearance of an office if you want to preserve a professional image if you’re working from home. So I had my diplomas on the wall, and I had my desk. And I would focus the camera so people couldn’t see curtains or furniture and it wouldn’t look like…
But eventually, you find – and I talked to a lot of people – that you never leave your room for the entire day.
Lisette: [Laughs] That is the downside.
Jesse: And you’re like, “Wait a second, am I working from home? Am I liberated from the corporate prison? Or did I just build a prison at my own home?” So between that and the fact that when you have small kids, and they come home from school in the middle of the afternoon, boom, [the day shock – 03:28], because they’re going to come running into the house. So I said, “You know what I need? I need a new space.” I didn’t pay $1000 a month for an incubator co-working space. This is a lot of hip kind of the thing to do. And as an extrovert, I love being around people. But why rent when you [can buy – 03:49].
So I built my Shedquarters. And what we did is for the same monthly amount of money I would be paying for rent, I put a loan against my own investment funds that I had. And I built an office in my backyard, a detached office. And I found out about this on Facebook. My wife was just on Facebook just kind of skimming through it. And she saw this little thing about Shedquarters. This is a trend, particularly in Silicon Valley. And there’s a number of little, small companies that have popped up that will sell you a kit with which you can build these things. For those of you on video, my son here is checking it out. And it’s open, 12 by 16. And the joke that I tell people is rather than climbing the corporate ladder for the corner office, I just built one.
Lisette: [Laughs] [crosstalk – 04:52] from home. Wow!
Jesse: I didn’t use one of the kits. I went custom. There’s a really good group of guys here in my neighborhood that live two streets down that I’ve worked with before in my house. And they designed it. They built it. And I love it to death. So the point is this: It’s a journey. You’re going to have the first configuration of your desk and the first configuration of your headset. People may not realize that [unintelligible – 05:28] spent a solid amount of time figuring out our [tech] just for this call. So it’s a journey. Try just to do it. Try something, and then evolve and iterate and adapt in an agile fashion as you go along.
Lisette: I was going to say that sounds awfully agile [laughs]. But it’s a really good [crosstalk – 05:49], actually, because I am dying to get into this subject with you and this subject of Agile. We don’t need to go into what Agile is. I think the audience that listens to this is pretty savvy for the most part and knows what it is.
But there is this big divide in the community, it seems, of whether remote and Agile can work together. And I’m curious what you think of that.
Jesse: The short answer is that was then and this is now. That was then. If you think about when this Agile movement started, it really started to come into being in the mid ‘90s. This is when some of the more renegade project leaders were using what they called lightweight methods. Lightweight methods meant that we didn’t have as much bureaucratic overhead. Instead of planning everything up front, we would plan as we go. We would get better with our information, progressive elaboration, blah, blah, blah. Think about the kind of work dynamic that was going on in the mid ’90s. Yeah, you had the rise of these big bureaucratic processes like ISO 9000 and CMMI, Six Sigma, and things like that. But all you had was a conference phone and email. That was it. So if you wanted to work on your global project, you were racking up a lot of airplane miles, you were sending a lot of emails, and you were dealing with really bad telecom. The telecom was pre-fiber, before fiber-optic cables were laid down. And that was the kind of the dynamic.
So what the Agile philosophy is about is compressing distance. And there are multiple kinds of distance. Some of the people in the community have said that when you’re trying to scale organizational agility, there are multiple ways to scale, more than just headcount. You’ve got this distance that you have to deal with organizationally. So if you have organizational silos, you have organizational distance. We need to bridge that by having tiger teams, full-stack teams that have all the skills. You’ve got this guy and this guy. Watch any war movie, any war movie, and you’re going to see that the heroes are a collection of disparately skilled teams but all the skills on the whole team. That organizational distance.
The other distance is skillset distance and knowledge distance. Instead of having everything serialized into the specific phases where we do all of one kind of work, all the analysis, all the other kind of work of design, all of the other kind of work of building, all kind of work of test, let’s compress all of that into a single mini phase where we do all of those things together and then see what comes out.
The other distance was geographic. Think back of mid ‘90s. The geographic distance was hugely disruptive because as all agree, email stinks. Email is not effective. And then the airplane thing, that’s not sustainable. It doesn’t scale on some of the larger programs I’m sure that you’ve been interacting with. So what do you do? Well, you take everybody and put them into the same physical room. There are a couple of guys. I forget the name of the Dutch guy that popularized the 30-meter principle. His research found that if your teams are located more than 30 meters apart, they might as well be 30 miles apart or 30 hours apart. Alistair Cockburn, who’s an Agile thought leader, called this the Bus-Length Principle. If your people are located more than a bus-length apart, they might as well be two countries apart.
But then something interesting happened. Broadband, along with fiber optics and video codecs, and then the Moore’s Law started to reduce the cost of really great tech, like this webcam or your headset. So those three became the perfect storm. You fast-forward 20 years later. It’s a different world. It really is a different world. So we’re able to create this compression of bridging geographic divides. You and I are having this conversation, and we’re like having a blast. And you’re on the other side of the Atlantic relative to where I am in the U.S. So that’s kind of the dynamic that’s changed that enables agility in order to happen.
Lisette: So in your work, your coaching, what is it that you’re actually doing in your work? Are you coaching Agile teams? Let’s talk a little bit about what you do.
Jesse: Sure. I spend a lot of time training and coaching. That’s really been how I generate most of my revenue and pay the bills, so to speak. I’m one of only a few hundred in the world that are licensed to offer the industry-leading Agile certification, Certified Scrum Master certification. And because it’s really popular, I’m pretty stable with that work. And it’s a gift. It really enables me to see so many different work environments, talk to so many different people across the world. And I’ve trained every populated continent save Australia. Australia, you’re next. You’re on my list.
Lisette: If anybody is listening.
Jesse: Yes. So because of that, I create relationships. And that leads to actually coaching people through this journey. And I’m really proud of my most recent client, which is GE Transportation. They rebooted one of their Agile programs. It moved from being a three-time-zone distributed team in U.S. to being a 10-11-time-zone distributed team across India [from New York – 12:16] to Texas. And it worked, and it was beautiful. So when I saw you talking about collaboration superpowers and remote people doing amazing things, it was like those are my [guys – 12:30] over at GE. They are amazing, awesome. So that’s what helps me stay in the mix. But that’s what I’ve been doing. And then I’m dabbling into a few other new things.
Lisette: I like what you say when you say that actually, when you get it to work, it actually is magic. You didn’t actually say that. But when you get it to work, it works really well. It’s super powerful when you get it to work. Before we go into how you make it work or how do you make it work specifically, what is it that you’re seeing the teams really struggling with most of the time when they are working distributed like this, whether it’s across the world [in the U.S. – 13:14]?
Jesse: I totally want to geek out with you on this. There are two key things that I see people struggling with. The first one is old habits. If you’re used to working in a large corporate environment, or even at a small office where everyone is close by, here are some of the conveniences that you’ve been spoiled with. And that is you can just open up Microsoft Outlook and pick two or three people, and then pick their calendar time and then boom, and then just summon them into a conference room if you can find a conference room. That’s one issue everyone deals with. You don’t have a meeting space because the only time any work is done here is meetings. Meetings feel like work, but nothing gets done. But this is ironic.
Then you are then spoiled by the fact that all you have to do is at any time you want to have a conversation, you just turn on the conversation button, which is a conference room. Or you walk down and interrupt somebody in the middle of their workflow. And you’re just like, “I need to talk.” So boom, you do that.
Now when you’re working in a distributed environment, especially across multiple time zones, you need to be deliberate. You need to be thinking in advance, much more in advance, days in advance of when you want to get together and talk through an issue. And then you might even want to be deliberate about scheduling collaboration hours.
On my new website, virtuallyagile.com, I have a whole tutorial about this whole time zone thing where you do the math. Do the math and find out when you have these time zone overlaps. And then schedule all of your meetings one or two days in advance within that collaboration window. But then when everybody else is on their off time, when they’re in the office and you’re kind of clocking out or you’re in the office and they’re going home or whatever, that’s work time, no meetings, no conversations.
So there’s this upside associated with working in a global environment where you only have to suffer through meetings a certain, particular time of the day. And then the rest of the day, you just put on your headphones and then you just knock out work. The first struggle that I see people have is letting go of these old office habits that we have and starting to be more intentional and deliberate in advance.
Here’s another one: If you go to schools, you start your class on the hour. And then you finish class 10 minutes before the hour to give people about 10 minutes or so to move to the next class. But when you get into a corporate environment, what happens is the meeting goes all the way to the top of the hour. And everyone spends 10 minutes trying to rush to the next meeting. And then you start 5 or 10 minutes late in the meeting, and you’re already feeling stressed, and you’re anxious. And then the meeting isn’t as productive. So that’s the other struggle that we have, i.e. we’re always rushing around from meeting to meeting instead of actually having an intentional time block for things.
Lisette: Of course, some space in between also, a break in between these meetings, and the focus and the amount of attention. When I spoke with NASA, they put this idea into my head. They said for every hour that they meet together, they only do 50 minutes. They take a 10-minute break or a 5-10-minute break for every hour of meeting. And they just have that as part of their culture.
Jesse: Yes, try this. The next time you schedule the meeting, schedule it to start 5 minutes after and 10 minutes before the hour. And people are going to be looking at it like, “That’s an odd, little meeting time. It’s not the perfect… Oh, well, that gives me time to go catch a cup of coffee before I go.” And then people will say, “Thank you so much for being a little bit avant-garde with that, a little bit more self-aware about that.” It can be a good thing. So that’s the first roadblock that I see people transitioning struggle with as they transition to a virtual environment.
Lisette: I love it. So they are applying the in-office techniques to remote working. And some of these things just aren’t translating very well.
Jesse: No, they’re not. The other major issue that caught me off-guard is discomfort with video. This is something that I had to really come to grips with on a personal level because – I don’t know if you can tell, Lisette – I’m a bit of an extrovert. So I get energized. I get energized by talking to people. I get energized by being on camera with you and with others. I got a little bit of a wake-up call when one of my colleagues, a project manager here in the U.S., said, “I refuse to be on camera. It’s inappropriate.” What are you talking about it’s inappropriate? People see you visually every day in the office. What’s the difference people see you on a camera? And you can record it.
And then I remembered. That’s right. There are a number of privacy laws in countries across the world about video recording because that can turn into a really bad situation if you’re recorded without your knowledge, if a recording of you, even with your approval, is misused in some way. So one of the things I’ve had to do is I’ve had to start talking to people about this dynamic about well, this is a corporate environment. So it’s secured. We’re on a secure network. People can’t hack into it, #1. #2: It is for official purposes only. If someone were to misuse this video, not only would they be committing a crime, but it would be a fireable offense because they’re misusing company property and company infrastructure.
So there’s absolutely the need to walk through the transition with people on this video technology because it’s new. It’s different. Here’s one thing: People don’t see themselves in the conference room. When you’re in the conference room at the office, all you do is you see other people around you. And now when you’re trying to explain yourself, you’ve got this little mini window of what you look like. You may not like the way you look when you get upset. I told you. It was supposed to be done yesterday. And oh, I don’t look very appealing like that.
Lisette: Actually, that’s true. I never thought of that idea. [Crosstalk – 19:42] like that [laughs].
Jesse: It caught me by surprise. Isn’t that fascinating?
Lisette: Yeah, I’ve noticed the hesitance in using video, and I thought it was just because people are maybe at home and they’re in their – I don’t know – sweatpants or something. And at the end, I thought, “Come on, you guys. We’re professionals. We’re professionals wherever we are. So if you’re going to work from home, then be professional.” But I do acknowledge. The thing that has been interesting for me is the security issues that larger organizations have in terms of using video and these kinds of things. And it can be on a personal level as people being uncomfortable. But do you run into the situation where on the IT level, they’re simply not allowed to try these new video tools or go through that? And what is your advice for companies?
Jesse: Because [crosstalk – 20:34] Agile space, I run into a lot of IT leaders. The reality is that there are several IT departments that simply have not caught up to the industry. There’s a difference between being cautious and being paranoid. And I think a lot of company policies don’t know where to draw that line. Whether it’s IT, whether it’s legal, whether it’s corporate facilities, take some precautions.
For example, right now, you visually cannot see the mess that my office is in. I’ve taken the precaution of closing this camera window so you only see what I want you to see. I [unintelligible – 21:26] in here through the snow. [Crosstalk] right now. So take some precautions.
Then there’s paranoia. We have to block off YouTube. We have to block off Skype. We have to block off Google and Google Hangouts. Why? Because that’s inappropriate for a work environment. It’s inappropriate for you to be skyping because Skype is obviously for personal recreation. It’s inappropriate for you to be using YouTube because that’s obviously for personal recreation. And that might’ve been the case 10 years ago. But now this is becoming the new standard for the workplace, the work environment. It is cheaper for you to spend money on bandwidth than it is for you to spend money on travel, period. So either you want to let people use bandwidth to collaborate, or you put them on a plane and spend $10,000 a week having them go off to where they need to go.
But then again, a lot of IT leaders are not held accountable for that. They’re held accountable for cost [and lowering – 22:37] cost. And they’re held accountable for these different video ports. Are you going to let [unintelligible – 22:43] on this port. One of my favorite tools that [our friend Davenport – 22:48] has introduced me to is appear.in. And appear.in uses the latest and greatest browser technology for native video collaboration. You don’t have any plugins. It’s the easiest tool out there to use. But it’s blocked. It’s blocked over and over again. When I was living in India, I can’t tell you the torture that some of my Indian clients were put through because they literally were not trusted by the mother company to be on the same network. No, you live in the developing world. There are a lot of evil people out there. We have to separate the network. And if that means that you’re not half as productive as you normally would be, well, that’s okay. It’s still financially worth it. But personally, I feel like a second-class citizen. I feel like I’m not part of the team. I feel like I’m not really collaborating.
So the challenge is that there’s a difference between taking precaution and paranoia. I would challenge those of you listening to challenge your leadership in response. If you’re not getting access to people that you need to get access to in a timely fashion with the tools that you have in place, start having those conversations because it’s impacting the bottom line.
Lisette: I’m really glad you said that [laughs]. It’s not just me saying, “Come on, people.” At some point, if you’re going to bind your employees’ hands and say, “I still want you to work together more efficiently, be more productive. But don’t use video. And don’t get a good headset.” It’s just like, “What?”
Jesse: [Unintelligible – 24:20] your mind? Excuse me, might I have a $50 headset so that I can… No, that’s a [procurement – 24:28] thing. And we don’t have budget for $50 headsets. [unintelligible – 24:34] people, people.
Lisette: [Or say you have – 24:38] these great, huge systems. Let’s get into how do you start with a team that’s working. How do you start when you’re coaching? I want to talk about your book. We’re going to run out of time. I already know. We’re going to go over.
Jesse: We’ll do a part 2.
Lisette: I’ll do a part 2. How do you start with teams that are working? Is there a particular process you take them through? Does it depend on the team? How do you start?
Jesse: Usually, as an outsider, the first thing I need to do is I need to start doing some discovering. I sit down and I talk. I do interviews with people in different… I’ll fly. I will fly to the different job sites where people are trying to collaborate. I’ll get a sense of what technology they’re using. And invariably, what I find is that they are working remotely. They are. They may not be as efficient. They may not be as productive. There might be some frustrations. But by the time I show up, there’s already some infrastructure in place. Maybe they’ve got BlueJeans installed, or they’ve got Cisco TelePresence installed in some of the work sites. Or maybe there are complete Google [shop – 25:55]. And they’re using hangouts along next to their Gmail. They’re doing it. But it’s much more ad hoc.
So usually, the first thing I’ll do once I’ve had that initial discovery and I’ve got contacts, then I start asking some leading questions. I’ll say, “So what are your #1 pain points, guys?” And interestingly, the #1 pain points, it tends not to be the remote thing 100 percent all the time. It tends to be more like I don’t have enough training on how to use this new tool that I’ve been asked to use at the office. It’s something along the lines of we have inflexible work hours. So I can’t get to my daycare and pick up my child when I need to. It’s things like we have unclear direction from leadership. Oh, and by the way, I can never get a meeting because everyone is in a different time zone.
So sometimes remote is not the #1 barrier. Remote is really just an aggravator of what’s already wrong in the environment that we’re in. So if you just start asking the basic question of what are your #1 paint points, you might be surprised at what pops up. It might be, for example, that time zone isn’t the problem. Maybe you’re in Europe, and there are only two or three different time zones from the east to the West. And you’re at the U.S. There are only two or three time zones from the east to the West. But the real issue is culture. You’ve got a huge cultural divide because in California, people show up a little bit later in the day. They go home later in the day. But if you’re in New York City, it’s just high octane all the time. And culture clash might be the issue that you’re dealing with.
So the first thing I do to get people started is just ask them what’s bugging them. And then that starts the conversation about, “Hmm, it’s interesting. Why?” And here’s another one, “What have you tried to overcome that?” And almost always, the answer is we’ve just tried to do our jobs. There hasn’t been an intentional effort to fix some of the problems. So if you have a cultural disconnect, that’s a problem that needs an airplane involved where you need to get people together. One of my favorite global team gurus is Rahul [Saw – 28:27] from [I Sense for Awareness]. He runs the Indian office for a Dutch consulting company. And whenever there’s some kind of a disconnect, he hears from his staff in India. They’re like, [unintelligible – 28:42]. “Hold on, hold on. What was the last time you guys flew over there?” “It’s been about two months.” “Okay, yeah, it’s time.” If there’s a cultural disconnect, it’s time to bring people together over a social beverage, whether it’s coffee or alcohol or tea. Getting people together over food and drink is a way to start having a real honest conversation about cultural disconnects. So yes, that requires an investment. But not every month and not everyone. But ask the question. What’s really bothering you?
Lisette: Interesting, super interesting. I love that was cultural disconnect to get on the airplane. I didn’t think of it that way. But that’s getting people together. I’m always trying to say, “No, we can do it remotely. It can be done remotely.” But almost every interview, people say, “Yes, you can do it remotely.” But it takes a lot longer, and it’s a lot more painful. And if you could just get people together every once in a while, you sure solve a lot of problems far more quickly [laughs].
Jesse: The big eye-opener for me on that topic of remote versus travel or virtual versus travel was the 37signals guys, the guys that wrote the book Remote. And even they have their semi-annual corporate gathering. And these guys literally wrote the book on remote collaboration. And yet they still get together physically, in person. Here’s another thing: You cannot have a 100 percent exclusive virtual strategy. If you want to build high-powered collaboration, the open-space people do it asynchronously. It’s all virtual. But there’s high-powered collaboration which is different than that. Neither can you do it 100 percent just with travel because there are a lot of people that might be thinking, “I don’t want to spend on technology mumbo jumbo. I can just get on the car and drive 1000 miles right where I need to.” So it’s not either-or. It’s both-and proposition.
Lisette: I really like that. We’re reaching the top, but there’s one thing more that I want to discuss and dive into, which is tools, and some of your favorite tools for working remotely, if you have any.
Jesse: Well, I do have some of my favorites. The first one is have a task manager. Have a project management tool. My favorite is Trello. Trello has that visualization about it where you’re physically moving your tasks around and organizing them. But Basecamp is popular. And then you’ve got all the Todoist and the Wunderlist. It’s something as simple as that to something more complex and complicated like Microsoft Project Server, something like that. But you need to have something to manage work. That’s #1. And I found that the simpler it is and the more visual it is the better.
And then #2, I’m a big believer in video. And we’re on video right now. We’re doing the video thing. And I have a lot of people who are still stuck in conference calling. And everyone has seen the video, the YouTube satire about conference call in real life. And it’s time. It’s time for you to move into the 21st century and start using video technology. But what about the ports are blocked? Okay, there are about a dozen different choices out there. We’re using Zoom right now. I did use appear.in with the CIO of a university. So that worked. But pick one. Use one. And here’s the thing: They’re all pretty good. Some are better than others with different parts of it. Some have more sharing and more users. But basic building blocks. My favorite is Trello for the project management and work tracking. And my favorite video tool at the moment is Skype, believe it or not. So what I would do is I would encourage people… When you have a human connection, you create a community connection. And then you have a content connection. The content of the work that you’re doing, you have to be able to point to it, talk about it, and then collaborate offline. But you also need a community connection beyond the dial-in number, the bridge number. Yes, it’s convenient for you to dial in while you’re home. But most of the tools out there offer that as a bonus feature, not as the core around it.
Lisette: Right, yup, totally love that. I love the communication connection versus the content connection or [unintelligible – 33:50] having a content [crosstalk].
Jesse: I just made that up.
Lisette: Awesome, it’s going to get [crosstalk]. I said that that was going to be last question, but I cannot not talk to you about your book Can You Hear Me Now? We have to talk about that. So let’s talk about why you wrote this book. And then we can go more into it.
Jesse: I was introduced by a colleague of mine to MiniBük. MiniBük is a small, independent publisher that is very much about the form factor. In fact, I’ve got an example right here so that you can take a look at it. This is the book. It’s 5000 words, not 50,000 words. It’s about the size of a cell phone. It fits in the palm of your hand. And this becomes my business card. Hey, how’re you doing? I’m Jesse. This is my business card, boom. And it’s like what? This isn’t a business card. This is a little mini book. It’s a booklet. Wow! There are actually tips in here. There are 5000 words of tips in here. This is really helpful and interesting. And I was blown away by this tool, this [products – 34:55] that I’ve got [unintelligible]. And the more I started talking to people about this, the more they loved the idea because on the back is a barcode. That’s an ISBN number. It’s registered in the Library of Congress. It’s a real, freaking book. So I can now say with a straight face I’m a published author and tell people this is my minimum viable product. This is the Agile version of the book, smaller, faster, cheaper [crosstalk – 35:21].
Lisette: Brilliant, I should’ve done it [laughs].
Jesse: Anybody who wants to, just go to MiniBük.com. The editor there, David, is a personal friend of mine. Tell him Jesse sent you. And before you know it, it’ll be published. It took me a month to put it together. And what I wanted to do is I wanted to get something in people’s hands. I wanted to tell my story, #1. And I wanted to get something in people’s hands that was actionable. So in here, there are some tips about how to create a cultural connection, some communication techniques. And then at the very end, I mentioned Agile, at the very end, as an afterthought, that Agile can be the solution to your remote problem. A lot of Agilists are looking at remote as the obstacle to Agile, rather than Agile is the solution to remote. So we talk a little bit about that in the book as well. It’s a free download to anybody. Just go to my website, jessefewell.com. And you can sign up for my newsletter and get a free copy of the e-book version of it.
Lisette: Awesome. So you kind of took the very last question out, which you already answered, I think. We’ll see. What is the best way for people to get in touch with you if they want to know more information. I assume definitely go to your website, jessefewell.com. I’ll put it in the show notes so people can do it. But then you’re on Twitter. You’re on Facebook. You’re on LinkedIn. You’re on all the social media. So really, if they just Google your name, people will find you. But is there a preferred method?
Jesse: Go to my website and sign up for the newsletter. That’s the best way to be in the loop on what I’m up to. I’m about to go on tour here talking about the same topic, Can You Hear Me Now, working with global, remote, virtual teams at a couple of locations across the U.S. So if you go to the website, sign up for the newsletter, jessefewell.com, then you’ll get direct to your inbox the latest and greatest stuff going on – including the as yet not talked about but topic for next time, which is virtuallyagile.com, the online resource for online teams, the virtual resource for virtual teams. So we’ll talk about that next time. But man, this is awesome. This is fun. [Crosstalk – 37:58] lot.
Lisette: Yeah, you’re the one [crosstalk] say. All right, so we’ll end it here. And thanks everybody who’s listening. And until next time, be powerful.
Jesse: Boom, yes.